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29 responses to “Brexit Drives Gold Frenzy, Report 26 June, 2016”

  1. What about the impact that arbitrary spot trading will have? For instance, when those in short or long leveraged positions reach their individual buy/sell positions , won’t this perpetuate the sinusoidal trend on pricing?

  2. The swiss franc will probably collapse at the same time than capitalism will, not before.

    Fiat money is the ultimate form of money into the capitalism system, it is no accident, management mistake, policy error or because of nasty central bankers even if they are indeed.

    ZIRP had been forecasted since the 19th century and succeeded in the 20th century in Japan so much that NIRP came into the 21th century everywhere where productivity is the most advanced.

    Money illusion (gold included) might so finally disappear at last…

      1. The first occurence is in the 18th by Adam Smith himself (page 193 tome I, from a translation from french) :

        that would have reached the last degree of wealth which the nature of its soil and its climate and its location to
        respect other countries may allow him to achieve, which therefore could not reach beyond, and
        that would not go by demoting, the wages of labour and capital profits would likely be very low both.

        The idea of the fom of the capitalism when fully deployed and evolved is that competition between lenders will be so hard, that the fall of interest will fall near 0. It is written (I remember having read it) in the capital from Karl Marx but I do not find the exact sentence and where precisely easily.
        However never NIRP has been mentioned from my readings and memory up to now for the 19th century and before.

        Central banks currently just speed up the inevitable. The only possibility to postpone for a few decades would be third world war between USA and Germany (with Japan too would be the ice on the cake). Maybe a complete reset of the financial capital would be a new solution but it would be less “efficient” than destroying complete countries. This second solution is the one prefered by the BRICS while neocons and western banking oligarchy prefer the first one.

  3. Keith,

    While I understand the big increase in speculative gold purchases over the last week, what I’m struggling with is that your fundamental gold price is substantially lower this week vis a vis last week, yet we hear that physical ETF purchases are way up and refiners are working around the clock. How do you square this circle?

  4. Keith,

    Separately, given the increased global political/economic risk associated with Brexit, doesn’t it seem counter-intuitive that the fundamental value of gold would drop in this context when clearly risk to the global economy has increased?

  5. shwepa: That is the dynamic. Gold bugs imagine the price can only go up because, quantity of money. But there’s this endless volatility as speculators are entering and exiting positions.

    RD: I would encourage you to read my paper on the Swiss franc. For now, let me just say that we do not have capitalism. It is not capitalism which has socialized money in the control of a central bank. That is a key plank of Karl Marx. Capitalism has free markets, not central planning of credit.

    1. I read everything you wrote but I do not believe in the hypothesis and assmuptions you (by you it is not directed to you it is most of economists and other trade apologists) made.

      “For now, let me just say that we do not have capitalism. It is not capitalism which has socialized money in the control of a central bank” : your views unfortunately do not reflect reality and especially history. It is an etheric view which for example is often being rationalized by the reference of Nature.

      “That is a key plank of Karl Marx. Capitalism has free markets, not central planning of credit.” : you just showed you had not read anything from him seriously as he wrote to Lafargue in 1870 : “All I know for sure is that I am not marxist” ! You probably do not know that Marx and Smith agreed on many and many issues (cf. 1844 writings) but they differ on some others and for example with consequences on humanity to simplify : negative for the former, positive for the latter.

      What you refered is Proudhon’s philosophy which has been destroyed by Marx himself in Misère de la philosophie (Misery of philosophy). Indeed apart from the manifeste (a command form a party), it is absolutely clear that Marx has always wanted to destroy states (Ideologie allemande and le capital), yes ALL the states, all the lind of states and money but that’s another issue !

      By the way, I think people should read more about this mythical and nearly biblical 19th century for “pure” capitalism lovers where they will discover that “current diseases” were already all known a couple of centuries ago and if 19th century was not enough pure, they should ask themselves why it NEVER happens this way (cf. Fekete and his gold standard cum real bills) such free markets myth. If you consider we never had real capitalism, you should maybe think that it will probably never happen this way on this planet and that there must be real reasons why it had not and won’t !

      1. RD, I’m enjoying your insights here. I’ve read about the “mythical and nearly biblical 19th century for ‘pure’ capitalism lovers” and I agree that Utopias have always eluded us. Yet it is always important to study and develop those ideals. Only we must beware of wearing idealism as a blinder and of insisting that our ideals must be enforced onto all others to make the world perfect.

  6. miamonaco: The volume of refining activity does not tell us anything about the gold price. It merely says either fresh gold is coming to market from the mines, or gold is merely changing forms as it changes hands. Neither tell us about the direction of the price.

    ETFs are also a change of hands. Keep in mind that virtually all of the gold mined over thousands of years is still in human hands. This vast hoard of gold is never consumed. It mostly sits, but some of it is bought and sold. It is an axiom that every ounce has a seller and a buyer. This, also, does not tell us about the direction of the price.

    1. Keith,

      Would appreciate your thoughts on my second question, namely with significantly increased political and economic risk as the result of Brexit, why would the fundamental price of gold drop?

  7. First the price of gold moved $200 under ‘fundamental’, now the price of gold is $200 over fundamental. I just have to say it folks — this simplistic method is useless to me.

    That doesn’t mean our good Mr. Weiner is a bad guy. I just don’t see the value of monitoring the returns of warehousemen, the perceived marginal buyer. We are entering the latter stages of dollar hegemony. I believe different rules will apply.

    While I disagree with the significance of the calculated fundamental price, for the most part Keith speaks the truth about the economic problems facing a country with an irredeemable fiat currency. And I appreciate that.

    By the way, this “vast hoard of gold” might not be the best characterization of supply. After all, all the gold is the world fits in an Olympic sized swimming pool. Relative to a world full of phony fiat, I prefer a different characterization heard recently: “It’s a privilege to own even a single ounce.”

  8. I have one question on my mind – conspiracy one ;-) Don´t you think that present abundance of gold on the market is caused by central banks? Couldn’t they intervene and lend metal to BBs in advance for example? maybe silly question …

    1. “Don´t you think that present abundance of gold on the market is caused by central banks?”

      One of just many lies peddled by the fat-mouth conspiracy fringe, I’m afraid.

      Much if not most of the world’s bullion flow passes through Switzerland, which recently made public its trade data (annual 1982-2013; monthly data from 2012):
      http://www.ezv.admin.ch/themen/04096/04101/05233/05672/index.html?lang=en

      Remember all those articles on all those gold websites highlighting West –> East gold flow? If you look at the Swiss database those flows have collapsed in 2016 and actually reversed slightly, about the time Keith’s cobasis started to dive in February. Of course there is no discussion about this new development as it is bearish and therefore ignored.

      London is currently importing bullion at the fastest rate since data became available and it is doing so by diverting flow from the East by bidding up the price. E.g. gold flows from Dubai to Switzerland (then into UK) is the greatest on record (last 32 years). Hong Kong has flipped from being a net importer to net exporter. Flows into Thailand have reversed etc etc. I would urge you to extract and analyze the data yourself.

        1. Not for me it’s a hold. The historic data informs that Eastern imports always decline after strong price rises and flows into London. But these declines are temporary and demand eventually returns.

          Historically Switzerland’s two main suppliers of bullion are UK and USA. Late last year something remarkable happened. USA –> Swiss flow reversed as America started hoarding gold again. UK net exports of circa 500mt per year were unsustainable given how much we know was imported into UK during the bull market.

          The flow dynamic has therefore changed with a rising price and we’ve seen the expected Eastern response. What’s next? Historically and seasonally Asian harvest buying from August are good months for gold.

          1. From your own words :

            “Of course there is no discussion about this new development as it is bearish and therefore ignored.”

            What bearish excatly mean please ?

            By the way nobody said asian physical purchases had not been reduced quite a lot in the first half of 2016.

      1. Thanks for the comment rowingboat, it is funny how the West East flow meme has died.

        Your gold flows data backs up the idea that with specs bidding up futures prices creating a profitable carry the bullion banks will meet that spec demand by shorting Comex and buying spot gold to carry/store in their vaults in London.

        1. Who has said these west to east flows will last forever ?
          It just confirms asians are mostly physical dip buyers while westeners are paper speculators.
          May the gold face a 20% loss in their currencies (such in rupees), they may well com back with vengeance.

  9. RD… The many articles/authors formerly quantifying flow from West to East (2013-15) have gone silent now that this overall net flow through Switzerland has reversed. The narrative being that Western supply would “run out”, that there would be “shortages” or a “price reset”. By ignoring the recent change in dynamic central banks must be surreptitiously supplying the market, right? (Hence the same old, same old question above). That Eastern buyers reduce purchases, take profits, in turn causing a reduction/reversal of imports is a bearish factor. But note the recent change/contrast with gold rising steeply through $1200 in February versus the correction from $1300 to $1200 in May:
    http://www.platts.com/latest-news/metals/london/china-gold-imports-jump-68-in-may-to-115-mt-highest-26480084

    1. The physical theory was not an absolute theory : it was a relative shortgage at these prices (confirmed in some bay back backwardation over the last couple of years).
      If physical flows reverse with rising prices, that’s logic.
      By the way as you noted it, it does not mean that now, the flows are not going to reverse one more time (from west to east) as asians would prefer physical over chasing paper like momentum western comex traders.

  10. As of the close of business on Friday, the margin for new speculative positions in the main Comex 100-ounce gold contact will rise to $6,600 from $6,050. As of a week ago, before an increase that went into effect on Monday, this margin had stood at $4,950.

    100 oz bars? to go with those 100 oz contracts? what’s a new spec position? ; )

  11. Thank you for your responses. I understand what you are writing and I have nothing against. BUT. I have read some pieces from Mr. Suchecki on his blog about the gold market and he also wrote that BBs cooperate / could cooperate with Central Banks in times of stress. Mr. Weiner also wrote that we must look at the gold market from the whole perspective. IF so, CBs have approx. 34 % of all gold ever mined (if we take the estimation of Thomson Reuters).
    So how we exactly (!) know that CBs do not intervene somehow in any times – stress or no stress? Do they provide gold only in times of stress – it is more logical of course; and if they provide gold only in times of stress how do we know this? I accept that my question has presupposition that they intervene….
    My question is following my previous one I have raised maybe half a year ago or something. It was that If we have backwardation on some contracts so long (as we had from the beginning of the year) how is possible that the spot is not going higher faster or why is not going backwardation faster to other further contracts? I was meaning the question what was / is exactly behind this.
    And today when we have carry activity on the market – why are we so confident that CBs doing nothing. If I understand correctly to arguments of Mr. Weiner – we need not care about flows. It is absolutely unimportant if gold flows from west to east or vice versa – they are just some corners of the market. I admit that I presuppose that it is more logical that CBs do not intervene in contango (one argument is that higher gold price is not good for them). But do we know this exactly?
    But prof. Fisher wrote about that as well – and I also read Mr. Weiner´s response to his pieces … I mostly agree but my feeling was that his argument was more about prof. Fisher´s mistake about GOFO resp. GLR vs. LIBOR than about the Fisher´s argument that CB´s intervenes in times of contango.
    Thank you for your opinion – if you have time to answer

    1. Please recheck that 34% as gold miners produce approximately the total central bank holding every decade. And each year the potential CB influence reduces further as another 3000mt is added to the stock. The physical gold market is very fluid and I would suggest not stressed at all… the introduction and accommodation of China as a substantial/dominant importer since 2011 is testament to that. However, fluid flows are notoriously difficult to predict as anyone who has solved their N-S equations would attest… variables are highly nonlinear and coupled together in a complex way.

      And so it is with gold. Who predicted that the 1300mt bullion flow through Switzerland to the East in 2015 would completely stop and reverse since February with a mere $250/oz price increase… that flows from Dubai to Switzerland then into UK would increase to the fastest rate in 32 years? Or how about the hundreds of tonnes that Japan exported to the West during the QE years, which was unprecedented? The hundreds of tonnes exported from Korea during the Asian Financial Crisis in the 1990s? Examine the USGS data for America where for a few years reported consumption was less than scrap supply with the result USA exported all of its mine production and production passing through it from South/Central America (USA is since hoarding again). But look at America’s surging scrap supply in 2011 when the gold price peaked, 400mt including net exports of scrap.

      There is so much freely and publicly available information regarding the above-ground stock and its fluidity. However most gold commentators dare not report it because they want us to believe the market is rigid and in a stressed state… when ABC happens XYZ will happen (CB intervention/manipulation is usually the excuse given when what *should* happen does not).

      1. Working from the latest GFMS stock figure and extrapolating forward based on their mine supply, current stock is 187,545t, which puts the central bank 32,515t at 17.34% and as rowingboat notes, this is continually declining.

        IMO, central bank lending to bullion banks is at best tactical support for liquidity purposes, it cannot fill ongoing investor net demand for purposes of price suppression, which is what the mainstream goldbugs think and has led a number of high profile ones to calculate that central banks have/will imminently run out, yet the failure point never occurs. In addition, as rowingboats notes, there are “sinks” of metal that have in the past given up (and taken in) hoards of gold, which is another factor explaining why maybe the price doesn’t do what people think it should.

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