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Why earn interest on gold and silver? If you’re short on time or simply prefer to watch instead
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11 responses to “The Federal Counterfeiter”

  1. You keep saying this: “What is not possible is for debtors in aggregate to reduce their debt, much less pay it off.” But I have never seen you explain why debt cannot be reduced. A person can generate income without incurring additional debt. Some of that income can be used to pay down existing debt. In aggregate, every person could do that, in which case total debt would decline.

    Please explain why this is not so. Thanks.

  2. Let me take a stab at this. Basically there are 3 kinds of debtors: individuals, corporations, and government. Even if all individuals and all corporations paid off all of their debts, the government would increase its borrowing to more than compensate. Actually capitalism is for the most part is dead in our economy. Creditism rules the roost now. The economist Richard Duncan has evidence than unless credit (the flipside of debt) increases by at least 2% per year, the economy stalls out and goes into recession or worse. This is why the Fed is so rapidly increasing its balance sheet to compensate for the lack of demand due to the pandemic and stave off an even worse depression. It is the nature of our fiat money system. This is why the interest rate must fall … to keep the debt still serviceable. Unbelievably this system can go on longer than most can imagine as long as the interest rate keeps falling. However, this system will all of a sudden end very quickly when confidence in the currency is lost. I know this is not the best explanation. Maybe someone else can chime in to correct what I got wrong and/or fill missing gaps.

  3. Is there a reliable measure of total capital which could confirm whether the economy as a whole is undergoing net capital destruction?

  4. Thanks for the effort, dclinde. But I still have never seen Keith’s logic on this point. There is a big difference between what will likely happen to total debt and what is logically impossible. Keith says it is not possible to reduce total debt outstanding. I understand that every paper (or electronic) dollar represents debt, but paying down bank loans reduces the number of dollars outstanding. If people were to pay down more debt than the quantity of new bank loans, the net effect should be a reduction.

    As for the “total capital” question, I think you might find the Austrian Economics concept relevant. The Austrian school thinkers postulated a complex capital structure that includes all goods which exist not for direct consumption, but for the purpose of eventually enabling consumption. Some of these capital goods are very close to the point of consumption: product display shelves in retail stores, software supporting online sales, and such. Other capital goods are farther away from direct consumption: warehouses, shipping containers, for example. Other things are even further out: steel factories, iron ore mines, and so on. The only way to aggregate these myriad things is in terms of monetary value – but that ultimately depends on what entrepreneurs think market prices for countless consumer goods will be in the future. In short, it’s an impossible task to estimate “total capital” except in the most trivial and meaningless terms. At least that is my understanding of the Austrian model presented by Mises, Rothbard, Hayek, and others. But I stand ready to learn from anyone who can offer a different or more complete insight.

    1. https://youtu.be/iFDe5kUUyT0 Here, Tom, I found it. Start watching at 12:30. Like I said, if the amount of fiat currency doesn’t keep expanding, there will be a total economic collapse. Let’s assume as you wrote that it is theoretically possible to retire all debt. And the currency is debt. Then no debt = no currency = no economy. In other words, there will be a complete economic collapse and we will be back to square one using barter. I don’t mean to be sensational, but billions of people would die as a result. Creditism can carry you a long way (and it has) but it is a fatally flawed system. It cannot go on forever. Imo, we really need to get back to using real money, i.e. gold and silver, sooner rather than later. I hope this is somewhat helpful.

    2. Regarding the total capital question, I am not sure if it matters much on the precise definition of capital. Also once the definition is agreed upon, I am not sure if it matters much if you can put a precise monetary or currency value on total capital in any particular moment in time. I am pretty sure some really smart economists could make some good estimates. But over time in our falling interest rate fiat money system, the seed corn has to be consumed as articulated by Keith.

  5. I certainly agree that unredeemable currency is a terrible idea. But my one narrow question remains unanswered.

    “Let’s assume as you wrote that it is theoretically possible to retire all debt.” Trouble is, that is not what I wrote. Every time anyone has tried to answer my question he has gone right to the reductio ad absurdum. I accept that zero is not possible. But I wonder why the total debt couldn’t move up and down with the net amount of new borrowing? Keith says it is logically impossible for debt to decline.

    As for the capital question, I think most government statistics are worthless. Any number claiming to show what is happening to the capital stock would be far worse than most. Capital consumption occurs when people fail to maintain capital assets or when they fail to adjust the capital stock to meet changing needs. To answer the question in an aggregate statistic, the data gatherer would have to make this entrepreneurial judgment about every significant capital asset in the country. Impossible, in my opinion.

  6. OK how do we respond to someone who says there’s no capital destruction, I see buildings going up everywhere, help wanted signs everywhere (before Corona), stock market up.

    1. Every time there is a recession we get a pretty good picture of the capital destruction which has occurred. There is no viable quantification, perhaps, but the results are visible as capital assets go idle and capital asset prices fall to very low levels.

  7. I see a lot of people whining about capitalism. My take is capitalists are not in power. Why would capitalists support a system which destroys capital? When they were in power in the US 1865-1930 they supported the gold system. I would like to get critics of capitalism to redirect their criticism at our debt-money system, not the grocer down the street.

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